Michael, I was making a joke to drive home the point about the abuse of SSN being used incorrectly as a health identifier number. I do agree with you. I don't think that others in our forum "get it" The kind of mail I am receiving is totally off the point. Dan Freiling, a fellow vendor, is a perfect example of someone who is in a lot of pain over HIV, decided to flame me because I didn't know about homosexual family members problems that resulted in death. My questions are stupid to him. That has nothing to do with the SSN being used as a health identifier but I guess I was there and he needed to vent. Other members of our forum think the SSN is a way for the United States government secretly putting this covert leash on them forever and they are afraid that the government is watching our discussion so as to weed out people who are dissidents. Go figure. "They are watching" is some kind of X-files dialog, guys. This is a serious topic and I don't think the chaos that has ensued during our discussion solved anything. I think talking about problems is the only way to ever find a solution. Let me know if you have any ideas. I realize that this topic makes people uncomfortable but, Michael, comfortable people aren't motivated to do much to improve things. The majority have to be uncomfortable and many need to be down right angry enough to do something about it. I want everyone to "get it" and realize how serious it is and what we can do about it to plan the best future of health care. Best regards, Dale Michael Sachs wrote: > At 07:27 AM 7/24/98 -0400, Dale Dutcher wrote: > > > > > I find this discussion a simply fascinating > > example of paranoia that is often attached > > to computers and a person's perceived > > confidentiality or even sovereignty of > > their data. > > > > > > It is only frightening if you are > > experiencing a phobia of > > computers. How long have you > > felt this way? Remember the > > government is here to help you. > > They are your only friends. > > Trust no one else. Come closer.... > > > > > > Since there is no law prohibiting the use of > > a person's social security number it will > > be used out of convenience or a new > > ubiquitous new alphanumeric sequence > > will be generated to use its place. (adding to the > > growing family of other numbers attached to your > > identity: credit card numbers etc. ) > > > > Also notice that the social security > > number is not something that you "own". > > Ownership gives the connotation that it > > is your personal property: "your gift from the government". > > It is a number assigned to you by your wonderful > > government and is not your personal property. You > > don't own a number or sequence of numbers. > > (unless you try to copywrite it.) > > > > i.e. 90210 is a zipcode > > Only Aaron Spelling says it is a TV show. > > By the way, he can't copywrite it even if > > he had all the lawyers in Hollywood it wouldn't > > hold up in court. > > > > How about a HIN: Human Identification Number? > > It is similar to the Vehicle Identification Number on your > > car. It could happen...... > > > > Hmm. How about this a HIN-GPS. > > It not only tells your identity it also gives > > your location on Earth. Since you are > > constantly on the move your > > HIN-GPS would be constantly changing > > and therefor could be made more secure > > as an identifier. Then the government > > could never lose track of you. > > What a concept! > > > > > > They explained that solution years ago in > > primitive times when man worried > > too much about his home all the time. > > This syndrome lead to depression and > > general malaise. The local tribal > > shaman when he was consulted said, > > "Hey buddy it's just your two tents. Relax...... > > > > Oh, for the previously mentioned comment > > about Misused and Abused numbers: > > It won't be tolerated. Our government is > > only good at misusing and abusing people. > > Numbers are to be protected. > > > > > > Dale, > > I've got to be honest and say that after you posted this message and even > after > your subsequent messages on this thread I really don't know if you're being > earnest, tongue-in-cheek, or somewhere in between. > > I may not own my SS# or even my name. There are a lot of guys out there with > the name "Michael Sachs". And at least one has some shady financial dealings, > as I found out about five years ago when I started receiving calls from guys > like "Guido in Las Vegas" looking for a Michael Sachs who had written some bad > checks. Other calls came in from other guys asking about bad credit cards, > phony phone cards, etc. Fortunately my middle initial is different and they > were just calling every Michael Sachs in the Los Angeles phone book. > > I can think of only two organizations that "need" my social security number: > The social security administration and the IRS. There is no reason I should > have to give it to my student loan processor (which uses my SS# as my account > number), a credit card company, my local hospital, the AMA, the medical school > I attended, the bank which holds my mortgage, or my health insurance carrier > (which also uses my SS# as my account number). But since the number has come > to be used as an ubiquitous identifier in almost every facet of our lives, > like > all the other sheep being herded along I just said, "baaaaa" and marked it > down or gave it out whenever I was asked. What other choice did I have. I > couldn't have afforded college and med school without a loan, I need a credit > card, I want admitting privileges at the hospital, I wanted to graduate med > school, I didn't have the cash to buy a house, and I need health insurance > coverage. I suppose I could have raised a stink and insisted on each of these > organizations using some other means of identification. But realistically in > our society, there is no other choice. > > When I call my credit card company or bank, they always ask one or two > questions to make "sure" it's me calling. One of the most frequent questions > is "What is your social security number?" Considering the way my social > security number is spread around the country, I consider their other favorite > identifier, my mother's maiden name, a whole lot more secure. > > I know there needs to be a way to be identified other than by name. But for > all the examples I gave above, the same number was used, mainly out of > convenience. And because it's the same number being used for all these > unrelated activities (plus a whole lot more), that makes it all too easy for > hackers, criminals, corporations, or the government to alter sensitive data, > commit identity fraud, or consolidate unrelated data on an individual into a > more central location. I'm thankful that the other Michael Sachs who was > committing credit fraud out there didn't use my social security number. But > without too much trouble he certainly could have. A person's SS# (unlike > their name) is unique and > (as Debra pointed out) can be abused in a number of unsettling ways. And the > burden of proof falls on the person who's been wronged to set the record > straight. > > Regarding the "phobia of computers" you made reference to: again, I'm not > sure > if your comment was made in jest or not. Computer *use* is nothing to be > afraid of. But computer *abuse* is certainly something to be afraid of. Yes, > even without computers, unauthorized centralized data collection, identity > fraud, and other nefarious activities have taken place. But computers make > these tasks much easier (especially for the armature hacker) and much more > complete. > > I realize this discussion started not in relation to the SS# but with the > concept of a health ID#. > Still, I (and apparently others on the list, judging from some of the other > recent posts) find the parallels quite disconcerting. > > Michael Sachs, M.D. > General Pediatrician > -- Dale Dutcher () Cybermed Immunization System "The Cybermed Immunization System Never Misses an Opportunity to Vaccinate" Visit our web-site today. http://www.asciinc.com (800) ASCIInc (800-272-4462) (919) 362-0676 FAX
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